Steve, you've studied national theaters in great depth. The national theater of course is a tricky term. Like in Germany we have several. >> Mm-hm. >> Most countries only have one. Well, how do you understand the sort of difference between. Some countries having several and other countries only having one. >> Yes. Well I think there are a lot of different possibilities for national theaters. And the, I suppose the initial idea was to have one and for it to represent the nation in some ways. Though usually it was in the capital city. But certainly there are a, a number of ways in which national theaters have been formed and have addressed the population. In some countries there's a, a whole, proliferation of national theaters usually in cities. But in some cases, there are national theaters which are traveling so that they don't have actually a theater base, but they have an administrative base, and then they travel around the country. So one of the ideas of a national theater is how do you address the, the nation? How do you reach the population, and how do you represent the nation in the theater? So for example, in Scotland recently, they created a national theater in the 21st century which just has an administrative base and puts on performances in theaters around the country. And when those theaters put on national theater plays they're called the National Theater of Scotland, even though. They would not necessarily have the same actors in them, or the same personnel involved in them. >> When most people think of a national theater, they think of a building and you're saying of course that this is the newest trend is, you don't have a building, normally you do have a building. >> Yes. And this connection between the National Theatre and a building seems to be very important once. What's the significance of the, of the building? >> Well, I think it certainly started out that way. So you have the Comedie Francaise. You have the Dramaten in Sweden. You have the Burgtheater in Austria, as national theaters which, with very grand buildings. And so in a sense, a lot of the national theaters that were created after these imitated this pattern. So, for example in the 19th century, where a number of countries were creating national theaters. And particularly in areas where countries were just emerging and so they created national theaters to represent the emerging nation. These very often were copies of national theaters in other countries, and very often in a kind of neoclassical style. So that was very much a 19th century emblematic type of space. But if you and if you look at the buildings today of the 19th century theaters, you'll see a very strong kind of parallel. Or or resemblance from one to the other. Of what a national theater, in that sense, should look like. And it's interesting in the 21st century, even though there are national theaters, like in Scotland which don't have a building, there are other national theaters that are still being created which are going back to the 19th century model of having a grand building, so for example, the national theater. Of Catalonia and Budapest. These are national theaters which are, have the same kind of 19th century physical look to them. >> Mm-hm. >> That that you might not expect nowadays. The. It seems to me they're, looking at it historically, there are sort of phases of national theaters being built and established like, as you're saying, the late 19th century, particularly in eastern Europe, I think a number of them were built. Moving say forward, to the postwar period, it would seem to me that national theaters were built often in. Decolonizing countries. >> Right. >> Could you give us some examples of that and why, why this was? >> Just as in the 19th century, when countries were emerging and creating, nation states and and creating national theaters in parallel with that, just in the 20th century, you have national theaters being created. In states like in post colonial Africa or Middle East so that you get a number of new types of national theaters which are again, trying to represent the nation in some respects. Now it's interesting that in some cases, these national theaters are. Going back to a kind of earlier form of sort of European orientation or European aesthetics in others there is more an attempt to create a, a new aesthetics which represents something closer to the national culture. In a lot of post-colonial national theaters. You get an attempt to create something that's speaking to the nation. But very often it's somehow a kind of compromise between a kind of European presentation of work with a lot of European performances. The Tunisian National Theater I think Is an interesting case where they decided to have several different languages spoken as opposed to just one language like in, in Cairo. >> Today we're speaking a lot about transnational movements, globalization. So perhaps finally to sort of sum up, how do you see this model of theater, in relation to these new trends towards globalization? >> I think a lot, a lot of national theaters are wondering what is their role today? To what extent can they speak to the nation and represent a nation on the stage. And a lot of, nationalities, I think they're struggling with this. And, there's a kind of interesting model, which is that to try to put on plays by contemporary writers as well as classics of the Country, classic writers from the, nation, but also then put on international plays. And of course, the national theaters usually have some kind of international perspective as well. They don't just perform in the building, they tour abroad, and that, in a sense, is a kind of showcase for. The nation when it, when it goes abroad. And so they take part in cultural events which are like international festivals for example. So I think that in a way you could say that the national theaters are kind of 19th century type of cultural apparatus. Which is out-dated but at the same time countries are still trying to hold on to it. Countries. See the national theater somehow represent the nation if they don't have a national theater. They don't have a proper national culture, or they're not doing their job. So, a lot of money goes into these national theaters in order to prop them up and to get them to do the best work in the country. Of course, they don't necessarily do the best work, but they're, they are paid to do that. They are, are trying not to act like museums of national culture but, at the same time, very often are, are doing that as well
