So, if we now

talk about the social demand and you have also talked about the political demand,

certainly politics is also part of the society, at least it should be.

Nonetheless, political demand is already

a certain subsection or you give a special rate or some part of the society.

If you think of the social indicators as you talked before,

they being also maybe poverty,

human development and we certainly think of

a representative sample of the entire society or population.

But after that, well,

once you notice there's a power in a thing or number number,

power in the composite index,

then there is certainly quite interesting

also getting for any kind of lobbying or interest group.

And that means that they are coming up

more and more indices that are created not by official statistical institute.

I want even say that the majority of

composite indicators we find today are not created by official statistics.

And we are now even in the situation that when I go to a workshop of

official statistics that they feel a little bit chased by this demand,

social demands, and they see that they are growing like

mushrooms the composite indicators and they are completely running out of control.

So, what would you say is then the,

well what is the challenge there?

Yeah. Well, let me say first that I believe there is sort of tension between both sides.

I mean on one side,

official the statistical institutes realize there is a need for composite indicators.

They realize this because there is certainly

social indicators basically every month for that.

But on the other side,

the difference between official statistics and all the statistics is that when

you produce a statistics under the official seal of one institute,

you have to fulfill many things,

many conditions: say you have a law,

say you have a compromise of quality and say you

have some technical requirements about producing this type of statistics,

about confidentiality and about other issues.

Have you been a profession

but you tell us much more about the good practices and the conditions, yeah.

But this makes a lot of,

this makes institutes of statistics very conservative.

And it's not a criticism.

No.

It's just I am saying it because it's really

the way they try to produce newer statistics in

a very conservative way because cost is

probably the difference really between official and non-official statistics.

And you know it is very easy to make a mistake,

to produce a statistic that is not working properly well.

And if you are to destroy trust and to.

And it's easier to destroy trust.

Than to establish it.

Right. So, then this is why I believe official statistical institutes usually

are somehow reluctant to incorporate in

their programs this type of social composite indicators.

Sure.

But that should be given again the statement I made before.

Right.

What should be the role of them?

This is the second part of the equilibrium,

of the balance because on

the other side of the scale the statistical institutes know also

that if they do not incorporate in their productions these type of indicators,

private hands are going to do it.

And of course, I have nothing against this,

and probably they are going to do,

and indeed they are doing a good job.

But the problem is that.

You do not know who is behind.

Yeah. So, there is really a trade off attempts between

both both sides which is not easy sometimes to fill.

But it is true that at least in Spain

is the case and then I know other countries where this is going on

also that the statistical institutes are really making an effort to

go to the streets to ask

people about questions that were not really in the standard surveys 10 years ago.

And there are, I would say,

rather innovative operations in terms of official statistics.

So, what is your guess for the future for both sides

of the social pressure for composite indices

and also the construction and all these mushroom like coming up [OVERLAPPING]

Let me think that last year, we had the great opportunity of,

I had the great opportunity to assist to a doctorate [inaudible] of Peter Hall,

one of the greatest statisticians in our century.

And he pointed out something,

look I am talking about statistics in general.

Not even about public statistics.

And his claim was that statistics is probably one of

the most fascinating sciences for the future

because the last decades for statistics has been really a revolution.

We have computers that are really fast now to make calculations,

and we have extremely large datasets.

We are talking already about big data.

Data streams even though [OVERLAPPING].

So, it's really the great challenge of

statistics for probably the next decade is just trying to

obtain a relevant set of information from all of these amazing sources of data.

So then, of course, public statistics,

official statistics cannot be outside of this stream.

I mean we have to make an effort to adapt ourselves to

this new era where we really have plenty of data and we really have new needs.

So, probably, my opinion is

that official statistics is going to produce these indicators that

we are discussing and probably they will do it with new variables that

we can today or we can ever

imagine that they must be available but for sure they will be.

And maybe gain the control over the production of them.

Yeah, I think so. If you look back to the history of official statistics,

it's true that in many cases the first products,

the first ideas were coming from private.

Outside.

From outside. But at the very end it's true that

people tends to believe public institutions.

If they are independent.

If they are independent.

And let me tell you that in Europe it's for sure that they are because they have.

In most cases.

They have in most cases.

So, that's my clear guess.

Actually in Africa I had also the impression that they are pretty independent.

Yeah, I mean in many countries you can find

a really good legal situations where the official statistical institutes are

independent of the public sector,

on the political sector and.

Thanks a lot for your time.

You are welcome very much.

I hope it's going to be a very exciting course on composite indicators.

I hope too.