One of the other topics that we've touched on in our course has been the legal and ethical issues that confront sales and sales people and all of them. Curious, could you just sort of describe some of the legal and ethical. I know you operate in an industry that's heavily regulated, right? Pharma is not what it was 20 years ago. I mean, obviously, we're a lot more regulated than we were and deservedly so. I mean, we're impacting patients' health. We're impacting decisions that are made. So, what I can and cannot say is given to me whether in a package insert or from our legal division within our company. I don't go out and talk about the competition. I go out and talk about our medicines, what our medicines can do because that's within the data that we provided. The other thing is compliance training is very important. In Amgen, we take that very serious. I can't tell you how many courses I take a year talking about our compliance and our interaction with our customers and what we can and can't sa and what's appropriate and not appropriate. If we have somebody that's crossing a line or maybe asking us to do things that we normally should not do, and it's not ethical, then we have a responsibility to report those things and tell the company what action we took to protect ourselves, and compliance is very important. Patient confidentiality is very important. So, it's one thing we take very serious. It's one thing that if you're not cognizant of it or don't pay attention to it, it's a way you could lose your job, and it's very serious. So, interesting. Notice here that one of the things when we've talked about ethics and the importance of ethics and legal training in this kind of thing. You notice here that Joey's talked about formal training programs. That's usually a big component of it, and no doubt there are lots of policies and other documents that the firm is prepared that guide you on that process. That's your job as a manager is to create those sorts of things to make it happen. So, it's one thing to talk about ethics and legal kinds of matters and all, but it's gotta be more than just an email you send out to people. That's when the manager is very important because if you get into a situation that's questioning the ethics or the ethical or unethical situation or it might be a compliance thing, you're obligated to reach out to your manager or somebody within the organization to express what's happened, what's happening, what you're doing about it, and that's really where a good manager will be able to help direct you and have that conversation with you. I see. So, the thing I'm interested is, as a really successful sales professional, and I'm sure you've worked with a number of managers over the years, what do you look for in a sales manager? What do you need in order to succeed? Well, you can probably line up 10 sales people, and they're all going to give you a different answer. No, but to be fair to me, and what I enjoy is I look for somebody who invest in me, and that's something that I've always found is important for a sales manager. I really appreciate that, and that in turn makes me want to go out and do a good job for them. But the other thing I really liked to have, I've had a few good managers. One was a bulldog for any issue I had. I knew I could go to him, and give it to him, and he was a bulldog. So, that's where he was really good. Another guy knew I could call if I had any situation, and he would handle it for me and cared about me as an individual and when they help me out, and I mean there's all different kinds. I think since I've been in the pharma industry, I've probably had eight managers. I've probably had 10 bosses above them. I've had bosses above them, but the thing I like is the ones that are approachable and that you can comment, you can converse with and share ideas, not just your direct manager but his manager's manager and so on, and so forth. That's the nice thing about Amgen. I've really worked for some great people within the organization, some that have given me worlds or responsibility that I've been able to take and run with things, and I appreciate the approachability of some managers this way. So, what I'm hearing you say Joey is that personal connection, that ability to form a relationship is an important component. Just in practical matters, how regularly do you actually, physically, see your manager, your sales manager? Face to face, I'll probably see them once every six weeks because obviously, we have territories in different areas, but we might talk on the phone, have a serious conversation about the business once every two weeks. I know that I can pick up the phone right now] and call them, and they'll call me back and say, "Hey mJoey, what's up? How can I help you?" That's the part that's most important to me is knowing that they're there for me, and I appreciate that more than anything. That's the nice thing since I've been there. Out of 90 percent of them have been that way, and it's really sort of rewarding experience because I mean my goal was their goal too. What I do in the field affects them as well, and what I see also has an impact on the team. All right. So, without asking you to break any confidentiality or whatever, but when you say when you ask your sales manager for help or when you need them, how is it that they help you or what is it that you're asking of them? Well, I mean if I need to get medical support out there, they're able to contact and do that if I'm having a challenging customer or bad situation where it's just not impacting the business, maybe they could move that account to another territory that necessarily hasn't happened to me, but I mean there's lots of things that they can and cannot do. If I need funding, if I need to take time off for something, I need to go to them, and the sales manager really does have a big impact, and they can make your life really rewarding or it can make your life very challenging. Sometimes I've experienced both. Sure. So, the students who take this course are, this is a course in sales management and all. Do you have any advice for these kinds of people? Presumably, these are folks that are either are sales managers or perhaps aspiring to become one? Well, I think it would be important as a sales manager to learn to be self-aware because you're going to have your own sales team. Let's say, you have 10 reps underneath of you. All 10 of those reps have different needs, different drivers, different wants, and all 10 of those reps are probably going to tell you that they're best of the best. So, you need to be self-aware. You need to get to know them, you need to find out what their motivators are, and you need to be consistent with the way you manage the group. Obviously, some people require more attention than others, but at the end, I mean we as salespeople talk back and forth about the manager and some of the things they do, and a good consistent approach, and I would say one where you're fair with everyone. You don't want to be best buddies with one of your reps on your team. That wouldn't be a good thing, but you want to be friendly and cordial but professional at the same time. The other thing, some of the sales manager I've had, the ones that have been successful at it are the ones that are clear and articulate, and when they give something, the whole team knows what they're supposed to do. The ones that aren't good at that usually, it's a struggle, and it could go back, and forth, but I've been on great sales teams, and I've also been on dysfunctional sales teams, and the manager has a lot of impact there. Those are just excellent words and terrific wisdom to pass on to people and all. So, Joey, I'd like to thank you for being part of this course and for sharing your experiences, and I want to wish you the best of luck. Thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed it.
