So you see … this is exactly what I want to ask. Because some thought that China has no need to innovate or traditionally it only needs to copy others quickly to succeed. But you see that this is no longer the case. That phase has now gone Exactly. You see China’s ‘wan zhong chuang xin, quan min chuang ye’ [mass innovation and mass entrepreneurship], this movement really has a huge impact. It causes everyone, every graduate, not like before to find a job and not quite sure what he is working in. I give myself to you. That’s it. Can’t solve the problem, then procrastinate. But if he comes out to start a business, he will realize being a boss is not that simple. Like what I said out of 20 steps, you move one step and you thought you are brilliant already. But after you have experienced it, you learnt and then you become mature. (So because of this, many Mainland graduates now have entrepreneurship experience.) It encourages students to drop out to start their businesses. Encourages him to drop out to start a business. The experience, in fact, can be very beneficial. Because he can … even if he is no longer a boss, he works for others. With this experience, he understands running a business is not easy. (It’s not simple.) In addition, he experienced running a business. He understands the boss’s situation and will suggest some changes to make the company more valuable. He knows that he can’t do it, he will not be so aggressive as to think that leaving could do himself good. He has experienced that already. He will steadfastly help his boss. Like me; if you ask me to go into China market, I really dare not because that sales and marketing, you can’t even handle that white wine. (This means you have learnt something. Learnt a few lessons.) Because in the Mainland you work with them on technology, you must find a partner. Must have a partner. Don’t just think that you could go alone … (Find a strong, suitable collaborating partner.) E.g., my collaborating partner, his office is opposite to that of this official’s. The door is very small but inside is just like a palace. In fact, this kind of thing, outsiders can’t do it. You can never figure this out when doing something like this in investment. But when my partner faces the officials, that’s how he serves. Something like this, we are outsiders and it is very difficult … particularly something we call in Hong Kong … like people of my age, Putonghua is not our special strength, they try to make a hint on something and we do not understand, it’s really very difficult to get into the market. So finding a local to do this is much simpler. (Understood. Therefore, finding a local to co-operate is …) They know how to make sense of the locals. I tried hiring a local by myself. You think this is very simple, just hire someone? He spends money even faster than you. What he is thinking, you won’t know. We can’t get into their world, won’t be able to understand them totally. (So, it’s necessary to understand the local market.) Yes, so it will make a difference if you can partner with them. They know who to trust, who not to, what is their interest and so it’s easier to talk Therefore, I feel the first thing is that the Mainland is an extremely good place, it is competitive, it wants to attract talents. You don’t need to invest a lot of money, might even be zero investment. You can join competitions. If you win, you have prize money. Apart from prize money, you will also have support plans from the local authority. They give you some money. Then you might ask what to beware of as they give you these many benefits. How do you repay them? (What do you need to pay them back?) You have to pay attention to the fact that tax is really heavy. (Yes. Chinese tax is very high.) Tax is really terrifying. Basically … when you succeed, like what I said… succeeded, you have no problem in paying back. (Succeeded. Paying tax is right and proper.) Correct. The most important thing is that China is a reference site and it sharpens your products. When you go to other countries next, you will be able to … (You meant that if you could make sense of it and achieve it in China, your products should be able to …) Yes, because the market is really very big. E.g. Hong Kong is talking about tens of machines; in China, it’s hundreds TB (it’s…) It’s in thousands. (Then the market is really very big.) Machine is counted in thousands, just one client only. (If you can get the business, you are really awesome.) Correct. Soyour product will have reached versions 3.0, 4.0. A while ago, we mentioned that the Mainlanders copy you. Right, at version 1.0, it was copied. But once it’s launched into the market, because users will give feedback to him and he will know how to adjust it. (This is the continuous innovation part, the time for improvement.) When improved to version 2.0, it’s already something not just your overseas version, it starts to have something special. As the demand in the Mainland is so long-term, reliability is even higher and it could meet very exceptional needs. (Therefore, in the long run, people can’t just copy …) Yes. Once reaching versions 3.0, 4.0, you overseas … e.g., like Alipay, you overseas are not as big. Everyone [in China] uses it. Because you have freedom, China is different. Because it is national policy, everyone follows it. Therefore, it can achieve something that can’t be done elsewhere. China is in fact another world … (So following China’s national policy is necessary.) Of course! So, you could say it’s good, or it’s not, or say it’s not democratic… (So, in terms of business development for startups, if you can align yours with national policies, it’s comparatively more advantageous.) Or on the contrary, if your innovation could make the nation better, it [China] will encourage you to continue to develop. (Will also give you subsidies, support you.) Yes. This way to promote a change. So, in overseas countries, I find this kind of move relatively rare. It’s difficult for you to find a government to promote this kind of thing. (This is China’s characteristics.) One more important point. Why did I go back to the Mainland? Back in 2014, I went back to China. I asked a friend about BYD, a friend close to the Chinese government. He said cars made by BYD, ‘They make cars at $100,000 per car. We in China $80,00 a car. Will there still be a chance to make cars if we decide to make our own?’ China is determined to make its own products. Today, China needs national security, it needs to develop its own software … This is it … especially its own needs. Yes. Therefore, we have considerable room and the only thing needed is they think your products have potentials. They will surely support you. So, for products where there are huge demands in the Mainland, they hope that they are locally made Yes, so it is different from Hong Kong. Hong Kong is more like a mature person. Asking him to change is very difficult. Hong Kong is very mature. The Mainland is like a small child. He can do whatever he likes. They can be as free as they want. (So, it’s highly flexible.) Yes. For them, it’s to try it out first. If it doesn’t work, then change. Hong Kong is different. I have to test it out fully and introduce it only when there are no problems. (Two different concepts.) Correct. So if you want to innovate, basically it is very difficult to do it in Hong Kong. (On the contrary, China will allow you to try.) Also there are a lot of opportunities. (Allows a lot a lot of failures, and at the end something really good will come out of it.) Therefore, they said mass innovation and mass entrepreneurship. You can see there are a lot of apps. In Hong Kong, probably nobody would use them. In the Mainland, there are different apps in different places. These are developed very quickly. It doesn’t really matter because they are students. Students treat them as final year projects. If they fail, that’s it. But if the apps are good, they will be used everywhere. That will become a new method. So, they are developing very rapidly. Finally, do you have any suggestions to foreign friends or Hong Kong friends if they want to enter the China market. Any key advice for them? To put it simply, I’m more down-to-earth. Normally, hardcore technology is more academic. Academia has no burden. Successful or not they still get paid. They will still be happy. Therefore, it’s difficult to have any breakthrough. Ours are down-to-earth. Usually we would suggest something that needs the least investment but could still test the market. The first is to join competitions. This is really a good one. They exist in every district, every city in the Mainland. They are held every month. Every month in different places. For instance, it’s Dongguan, Hangzhou next month. Different places have different kinds of competitions. You can try them. You may not succeed. To succeed is not that simple but you must try as many times as you could. Many people asked me how come I got as much as eight million. In fact, I employ a girl whose main job is to get me into competitions. Getting into competitions has become a fairly interesting channel. You might have to do ten. There are judges who really don’t understand the product. (Met the ones who don’t understand, then forget it!) Just like Choi Yat Bong. I got into it, in fact to him B2C … that year. It was last year; he didn’t know what’s B2C. All judges didn’t know. The Amazon judge didn’t know what that was either. So, it’s very difficult. But must try continuously. There must be someone who knows. Particularly, now China has different cat., there is e-deo, there is new manufacturing, so … (This is one of the methods where competitions can be used as a start in the Mainland.) There is also subsidy. Say if they are returning from overseas, they will get 6,000 RMB for airfare and boarding. Unlike Hong Kong, there will definitely be a compensation for you. In Hong Kong, you might have done a lot, it's possible that you won’t get anything at the end. (This reduces the cost of an entrepreneur.) Correct. (Particularly foreign friends getting into China. They have such a scheme.) Of course, they can join many of these … Of course, you need nevertheless find a Chinese … maybe I am more aware of Chinese and so I have not … but I do feel that it is opening up. Because they know talents are very important. Talents will increase our GDP. When your products succeed, my city will become great. (Correct. That’s how China sees it.) Like what I said before, it started with 3 million [money], then topped it with an additional 1.5 million subsidies to me. Their city, then followed by their province will look at your products. It’s elevated from one level to another. If the nation knows yours is something good, the nation will subsidize you. So … (It can be from city to province, and then it’s possible to go to the national level.) Yes, it’s a very good way for development. Of course, I have not mentioned previously that the key is to be clear about what’s innovative in your product. It must have a value. To be honest, I shall first consider patent. Patent might not be able to help you but patent can make you understand whether or not your product is unique. Besides unique, we have something called horizontal patent. This one is not special. It’s more or less similar to other patents with only a few twists. This kind of patent is not useful. It has to be one that’s forward-looking. Something that future people will go to. (Going for patent, then it must be …) Extremely good patent. You can see that it’s something the world needs in the next two to three years. It’s very simple. (In other words, it needs to be forward-looking. What’s more it’s something that can actually solve a problem.) Correct. You have to think. If you start your own business, how will your products be changed in two years’ time? That must be something in the future. As you are the domain expert, you must know it. (If you have to get a patent, you must compete for a patent that is forward-looking.) Exactly. With such a patent, you can see the value in your product better and you can succeed more easily. The patent you mentioned - it sounds like it is not used to protect your business but rather it’s used to get you involved in the process so as to force yourself to look ahead and to look further. It’s more than using the patent to bring protection. To bring protection with patents? At the moment I don’t feel it. Because I have been there for six, seven years and I have got many patents, more than 10. (Patent protection is not really dependable?) Correct, but patents will definitely make you see whether or not your market is unique, whether there is room for your future development. Also one most important point, many experts are not experts. They don’t understand. If you have a patent on hand, they will exclaim in admiration. It’s very much like fund raising, they will consider this too They feel their investment will be protected. It helps … To investors, it helps if you own some patents. True. It even applies in talent scheme. They consider this too. They put emphasis on how many patents you produce every year. One more point, if patent is applied in Hong Kong or overseas, the expense is extremely high. In the Mainland, it’s very low only several thousands and it’s all inclusive. (Applying patents in the Mainland is comparatively cheap.) Several thousands and it’s all inclusive. Hong Kong charges you even for a conversation (This one is interesting.) It could be in tens of thousands. In the Mainland, it’s several thousands and it includes everything. One-off. It’s really good. There are some who even help you consider, consider how your patent develops, how to write. (The service you mentioned is by lawyers who specialize in patent?) It’s agent, correct. They will help you. If you are able to spell out your uniqueness, they will help you search. They might not be able to find something forward-looking, but they can help you avoid some … (These are really professional lawyers’ services.) Hong Kong is not like this. You have to rely on yourself to find everything. Maybe I know not many lawyers. The one at Science Park is very good. That lawyer has packages for clients to choose from but all in tens of thousands [dollars]. (Cost-wise – applying in the Mainland is relatively more reasonable and cost effective.) Correct. Everyone can think in this direction The most important point is if you can’t even get a patent, you have to re-consider clearly whether yours is a hard core technology. Going in the talents’ path, you must be in this direction. If it’s business model, it is difficult in talent education. Talent education won’t be classified like this. Because it must be core technology that changes the industry if not, it’s very difficult to walk this path. Of course from beginning till end, I’ve been talking about my business which is a hard core technology company and is not some new business model. Those model innovations, those to me, I don’t have enough experience in. Thank you very much for your sharing. Thank you. Thanks.
